Question: We are elderly parents of mentally ill alcoholic 30 yr old son. We are the social security disability payee and pay his rent, bills, etc. He has been in many, many treatment programs to no avail. He is constantly picked up by police drunk in street, parking lots, woods, and brought to hospitals. He has now accumulated $5,000 worth of fines, etc. He gets money for drinking by lying to me, needs money for food, etc. If i refuse he begs for money...No friends or relatives will have anything to do with him. We are getting too old to run around to police stations and hospitals, however, being the payee representative, i feel responsible for paying his bills. I realize there is a great need for me to change things around so that he becomes responsible for his choices, not me. After so many years of this i am overwhelmed with payments, bills, court dates, etc. Being on first name basis with crisis staff at local hospital is not fun. How do I become not responsible for him? Its very very hard to love someone like this and not enable him. Just today he called needs cigarettes, In hospital 40 miles from here. I am getting resentful. Do not want to drive there and drop off cigarettes. But i hold the money. I feel myself losing it mentally and physically.

Rob Danzman Says...:

Let me start by stating you clearly love your son. You are also in a bad position which is only, in my humble opinion, heading in the very unhealthy direction of financial insolvency, mental and medical break down for you. Psychological stressors are linked to heart disease, stroke and compromised immune function. If you and your spouse do not change your behavior, nothing will change. 

Here are a few assumptions I would be making if acting as your therapeutic advisor:

1. Your son is ill to an extent that's beyond your ability or means to dramatically change him 
2. Your son is not interested, committed or able to commit to real, sustained change
3. You and your spouse will not live forever and should not spend your remaining years acting as caregivers
4. You and your spouse have limited means and need to develop a plan for the near and long term with the major goal of handing responsibility over to someone else
5. You love your son and the above observations will be the hardest choices made in your life

There are several clinical, legal and financial professionals that can help carry part of the burden. But all of this is irrelevant if you and your spouse do not set a final, specific set of limits with your son. One strategy might be to remove financial responsibility sooner than later from you to someone else so you absolve yourselves of that stressor. This would make it easier for you to start setting boundaries. If you can't hand that task over to someone else, at least set a limit of no more cash. Not one dime. I don't care if he begs for a stick of gum - no more money. If he's hungry, you take him to the store and buy food or he comes to eat a meal at your house. If he's got a utility bill due, you can pay it directly. Cash is more his addiction than the alcohol. No more. He's developmentally more like a teen and the limits set for him should be consistent and congruent with his developmental age. If he was able to handle money, he would not have been assigned a payee. Why give him any money? Because he (or his addiction??) manipulates you and takes advantage of your compassion as a mother. Stop it today. 

Next, I would find a clinical case manager or therapist that can support you from a mental health and advocacy perspective. You need to talk with someone. You need someone to coach you through and act as your cheerleader. It's time to share the burden with someone else. It's not uncommon for our agency to work with parents and act solely as their counselor to help them develop coping mechanisms to get them through tough times. It's important to develop a team-approach and outsource the responsibility of facilitating treatment between different providers or professionals. This role is not something appropriate for a parent to do. A good clinical case manager will also be able to help you find resources for your son that have longer lasting impact. 

Finally, it's time to start refocusing on your lives. You will not live forever so it's time to get busy living. You may feel like you are abandoning your son or ignoring his pain but I assure you, his issues are not fixed by your suffering. Definitely plan time to see him and help him, but make sure he is only a portion of your life rather than the majority of your day. 

I sincerely hope this helps point you in a healthy direction for you and your family. Caring parents like you two should not have to suffer and endure this on your own. 

Question: Hello, My ex has allowed a childhood friend who is an active alcoholic to move in to her house with my 15 yr old daughter. the story is that she has sold her house and needs a "temporary" place to live while looking for a new one. My ex has good intentions but I know there is no time frame on her stay or "rules" to living in the house. My past experience in attending Al Anon meeting has made me aware of the potential issues with this arrangement. There has already been one 911 call when it was thought that the alcoholic may have taken too many sleeping pills. My girl experience the whole scene with the ambulance and police attending the call. Fortunately she recovered and was fine. Yesterday I went to the house to get a tool from the garage, the alcoholic meet me at the door completely intoxicated. I asked her if she was attending any meetings or talking with a counselor to which she said 'no". I am deeply concerned for the alcoholic but even more so for my daughter. I am looking for a set of recommended "rules" for the alcoholic to adhere too for my ex that addresses the time she can stay at the house as well as working, attending meetings , etc. But more importantly information as to 'why" for my ex to understand. Thanks in advance, Mike

Rob Danzman Says...:

This is a tough situation since it sounds like a) there are many safety concerns yet you have little control since it's your ex's home b) you actually have some respect for your ex's motives and c) there's a real alcoholic involved. 

Here's the super simple but hard reality - The focus should not be on the alcoholic friend. Your resources (time, money and energy) should be spent developing and nurturing a co-parenting approach with your ex and and teaching/role modeling to your daughter healthy boundaries/self-advocacy. 

Creating a Parent Agreement (basically, instruction manual for co-parenting) is essential when separated/divorced couples have children. It should include very specific rules, expectations, rewards, consequences for your daughter as well as expectations for who will be allowed in each of your homes and, ultimately, in your daughter's life (to the extent that's reasonable). Baked into this Parent Agreement should address keeping your daughter safe - not only physically safe but psychologically safe. For example - you said that your daughter witnessed the whole near-suicide drama brought about by the alcoholic roommate and that your daughter was fine. I bet she's not but may not be explicitly communicating it. 

Now, about the whole healthy boundaries/self-advocacy stuff with your daughter. These are essential skills we want all children to have. If the focus is on the alcoholic friend, you have a wack-o-mole problem - Will you really be able to neutralize every unhealthy person that crosses your daughter's path? Not likely. Teach her how to communicate her needs and wants while also clearly and appropriately expressing where her boundaries are (mentally, physically, emotionally, etc). This is a fantastic opportunity to encourage compassion for others (ie. mom's sick friend) without compromising her life. 

While I'm confident you can make a big dent in this mess, I highly encourage you, your daughter and ex to meet with a family therapist to learn and practice communication skills, parenting agreement and healthy boundaries. I don't think you all need to 'process' much but I do think these skills mentioned above could prove invaluable. 

Question: I don't know how to get my parents from enabling my younger sister. She is 50 and finally relocated to my parents hometown. She has been unemployed for about 5 years now and is an alcoholic who still drinks because she thinks she can.She has been through rehab 3x but it hasn't worked because she doesn't think she has a problem with alcohol. My parents paid for her move, got her an apartment and helped furnish it; bought her a car and are paying her rent, insurance, etc. until she gets a job. I found out recently that they are allowing her to have alcoholic drinks when they meet for lunch on Sundays. She has also been seen drinking before driving her car. I don't know how to approach my parents without alienating them. They were active in her family rehab outpatient sessions but they are in their 80's and afraid to "let her go homeless or without money." Non of this is helping her and she is just leaching off of them. What is the best way to talk to my parents without alienating them? thanks for any advice!!!

Rob Danzman Says...:

Dear Anonymous,

This sounds like a totally unfair situation. You are likely responsible, employed and have what professionals call an 'internal locus of control' - you own your choices, good or bad. Unfortunately, your sister does not have the same. She has was you would call entitlement (professionals might call this an 'external locus of control'). More than likely, your parents, with the best intentions, have protected her from natural consequences for most of her life. This likely taught her she does not need to own her choices since someone (ie. parents) will bail her out. To make things worse, you see her receiving bigger ticket items like a care, rent, etc. 

Ok - that is the situation. Now, what to do about it...

This is the messy part which I will warn you has no great outcome. If you've read any of my previous answers to other postings, you'll know that I'm a big believer that setting boundaries is one of the most effective and therapeutic steps a human can take. It creates a line that it concrete. Concrete lines are important because we can not only be specific in communicating our expectations with others (...and ourselves) but we also can clearly know when that line has been violated. 

So, what line to set? Great question. The problem here is not with your parents. It's not your sister either (That's not to say they are doing a great job of helping her and it certainly is not pretending she's doing a bang-up job of getting on with life). But if we look at this from a 'control' perspective, I can accurately identify only one person in this whole mix you have total control over - you. Your expectations are reasonable (for you). Your perspective about responsibility is reasonable (for you). After working with individuals, families, etc for 15 years, I will put money on your parents NEVER changing and on your sister NEVER changing. You are our best bet for change. Seriously. Do not tie your expectations to their emotional and financial blackhole. It will eat you alive. Just be clear that you will support your sister and parents with love, phone calls and maybe even having them over for Sunday dinners (sans alcohol) but you will not provide financial support or a place for her to sleep (which will eventually happen). Model the loving person you want to be rather than the judge, jury and executioner you think is needed to fix your sis. 

So, if you are supposed to change your behavior and not their's, how should you talk with them? Another great question. Your parents are old and are not looking at several decades of life left. Love them, not their choices. I will say this again and again - it's not your money or time. Love them, not their choices. Focus (or re-focus) conversations onto non-sister topics. Talk with your sister about what positive things are going on in her life. The easy thing is to talk about the lack of work ("Have you applied to any jobs this week?"), the hard thing is to change your relationship with her to something less parental and more nurturing ("Sounds like you had a nice weekend with mom and dad, I'm glad you're able to spend so much time with them." ). 

Now some more practical things: Your parents' living will, health care directives and power of attorney for health care/financial issues. If you have not done so already, help them get their will, health care directives and power of attorney together. Do not be surprised if they give the lion's share to your sister. Expect it. It will hurt and make you sad, mad, etc but it's their will. All you can do is ask how you can help and support them in whatever ways you are able. Supporting them is not an endorsement of your sister's choices so don't even go there. The best you can hope for is to either be named as the executor or to have a competent and trusted professional named. This is a vital role, especially when there could be conflict or disagreements. Clearly defined roles are super important. 

I wish the best for you and your family. Don't hesitate to post again. 

Question: I am visiting my grandson next week and when I see him (he is 5) he will ask w here is my daddy? Daddy is on 2nd gambling binge. His first binge ended in a suicide attempt and he spent 2 weeks in mental ward. He came home and 3 days later he took off again. The mom (ex-wife) has only told him his daddy is on a business trip. I am opting to tell my grandson the truth. As a recovering sex and love addict I think he will read through all the lies and lose trust for adults.

Rob Danzman Says...:

Dear Grandparent,

First of all, your grandson is fortunate to have someone in his life that care about him enough to ask tough questions like this. Basically, you're asking whether to tell him the truth about his father. 

In situations like this, I'm struck by our immediate response which is to create an outcome with only two answers. In this case, the two answer are summed up best this way - 1) Tell grandson his father is a gambling addict or 2) Lie to grandson and say he is on a business trip. 

One of the things I've learned over the years is that most questions, no matter how basic or complicated, often have multiple (...more than 2) answers. If we were to bring you into our office and do a real brainstorming session about all the possible responses, my guess is we'd top-out around 10. Yes, 10. This may seem like it pushes the clear answer out of reach by expanding your choice when in fact, you end up saving yourself heartache and time. 

Here's what I mean. Let's say you tell your grandson his father is an addict. First, let's consider his age - 5. Five year olds are just beginning to understand abstract concepts like death, money (economic systems), and hard-work. Gambling, though, is a really, really complicated abstract concept that he's probably not going to get. What he will hear (more accurately understand) is the value judgement of his father. "Your father is no good and abandoned you," is how he will interpret that response. My guess is, that's not really what you are wanting the take-home message to be. 

Alternatives then? Oh yes. Let's try a different approach where we started by identifying what we hope your grandson will take with him (understand) rather than what you feel is 'the truth.' My bet is you want him to feel loved, supported, and nurtured. Sometimes, even when people want to love us, when they want to support us and when they want to nurture us, they just can't. Your grandson's father definitely understands the concept of being hurt (ie. falling at recess and banging his knee). Sometimes, the reason why we can not love, support and nurture the way we want is because we are hurt in some way that needs to be fixed first. After healing, after getting help and after resting, those that want to love us might actually be able to love us again the way we want/need to be loved. 

Sounds pretty positive and not one bit of lying going on. Kids don't remember details of conversations very well but they do remember the emotional energy they felt during conversations. I'm sure you want your grandson to understand his father's illness without making your son feel abandoned. Lying is definitely not advisable, but neither is telling blunt facts. The truth is a combination of the facts with empathetic packaging in this case. 

My vote - tell the truth in a way that your grandson gains understanding, feels loved, and learns compassion even for those that may not deserve it. 

Best of luck. 

Question: My mother in law is a recovering alcoholic. I think she and my husband have a very dysfunctional relationship. Whenever she wants him to do anything she uses her recovery as a way to get him to do what she wants. He is so used to being the caregiver in that relationship and she is so narcissitic and she manipulates him to get what she wants without thinking about anyone else. She does not drive so we go up and spend Saturday night with her every week so we can help her do her groceries and errands. We wanted to go away for a weekend of couple time and then she was all week on the phone talking about how she was about to relapse and calling at all hours and laying on the guilt so thick that my husband just said we had better go see her and we all went to her just like she wanted. This is just one small example of what she does everyday. My husband agrees that she does this but he says he lived with her when she was drinking and he knows she will go back to it to spite him if he doesn’t do what she wants so he says he feels responsible for her. He says she is child like but he needs to protect her from herself. How can I get her to give us some space? I dragged him to an alanon meeting but he thought they were callous.

Rob Danzman Says...:

Dear Anonymous,

Sounds like a mess with no easy way out. If have read any of my previous responses to other questions or blogposts on our site, you'll know one of the big themes in our work is setting and maintaining boundaries. These boundaries are typically being set for loved-ones that do not respect or like boundaries (...or expectations or judgement or limits). There is no simple way to get her to give you all space. You can certainly be explicit..."I understand you need support but we to find a balance so please consider giving us some space" but we both know that will not work well at this point. 

So what can you control if not her or your husband's behavior?

Yours. You can control what you do and say. For example: It's totally appropriate to use the "When you (blank) I feel (blank" approach. Let him know that your relationship is like a bank account that needs deposits (time with you) when ever withdrawals (responding to his mother) are made. Right now, too many withdrawals are being made which is emptying the account. 

Another appropriate thing to share with him is that when he reinforces his mother's behavior (calling at all hours), he is making a decision on his and your behalf without you getting a vote. Basically, his choices impact you without you having control. He probably feels as out of control as you but does not know how to change or where to begin. One suggestion you could offer is that when his mother calls, he does not answer but returns her call the next morning. Since she probably leaves voicemails, he'll know whether there is a real emergency or just more drama. 

Ultimately, what you all really need is outside help from a therapist to help identify your values, create boundaries and work towards prioritizing. Doing it alone will lead to years of arguing and hurt feelings with little progress. The mother-in-law will continue to monopolize your husband. She feels desperate and alone and clearly needs her own support structure outside of the family. 

Hope this helps. 

Question: My daughter has been to treatment programs, NA groups, jail programs, psych holds for meth psychosis, rehabs, halfway houses and everything you can think of probably more than 20 times. She is a stimulant user of meth and crack. I am the only person that she can still count on in her life because she has lied, betrayed, threatened and verbally abused everyone including me so many times that no one in the family will see her again. Last year I got a restraining order against her after she came over and I caught her stealing items to sell and she got violent when I stopped her. That was really hard to do to my only child. After 20 times of trying am I still enabling her when I help her get into programs to quit? She will still call me every few months and ask for help again and again and it always ends with her getting kicked out of programs for using or just running away. I do not know if I stop helping her? Everyone says I should. Is this a part of letting her hit rock bottom but then what is the point of her hitting rock bottom if she can’t get any help? She is only 27.

Rob Danzman Says...:

Dear Anonymous,

I'm so sorry to hear about your struggles with your daughter and wish I had either a quick fix or better news. The bottom line is A) You will always love her because she's your daughter and B) You can not provide enough money, intervention or help to save her (at least not by yourself). This is the point where we (our clinicians) change the conversation from 'intervention for child' to 'boundary setting for parents.' If you were our client, I would help you identify, create and maintain healthy boundaries for yourself - limiting how you respond to your daughter's requests/demands. We already know your daughter will attempt to violate any limit you put into place (we kindly refer to this as negotiating). Let's focus on the person we can control - you. The best control is setting those boundaries you will not cross (ie. sending more money when she calls). This process should not be done alone and should include everyone in your daughter's life with whom you can effectively communicate. The more family and friends adopt this new perspective (set boundaries for the sober people, not the person on drugs) the more effective and (slightly) less stressful your lives will be. WARNING: She will not like this approach and will accuse you of conspiring all her friends and family against her. This is just another form of negotiating, trying to ultimately get money for drugs. When the world is consistent and the boundaries are clear and enforced, she will fight to find any loop pole to get what she wants. 

As for your daughter. If she were our client, we would contact a magistrate/judge and have her involuntarily placed in long (and I mean really long term) residential treatment. She clearly did not have a long enough treatment with the right therapy and the right team. While the brain's ability to heal is amazing, there are some of us that require a significantly longer period without drugs in our system before our neurons can rewire. 

In summary:

1) No, you can not change her. Yes, it is kind of enabling for you (and anyone else) to give her money. Focus on setting rules/boundaries/limits with yourself and others related to what you will give to her and when you will give it. Example: Commit to yourself you will only give her food, water, rides, clothing - No money, no access in your home, and nothing of significant value (she'll sell it for quick cash). 

2) Your daughter is not dead. There is hope. She just needs a different set of supports/interventions than what have been previously tried. 

I hope this information provides some perspective on a terrible situation which is not your fault. Best of luck. 

Question: My 58 year old brother is an alcoholic. In the last 5 years he has gone through a messy divorce and declared bankruptcy, closing the business he inherited from our dad. Unemployed, he moved in with my mom and spent his days drinking and watching tv. He plays the victim card all the time, complaining how no one has helped him in his life and how everyone in our family are losers. Last November he was arrested for a DUI and released on bond. Two months later he was arrested for an open container ( he was drinking in a mini market parking lot) and his bond was revoked as he had violated its terms. He hired a public defender and has since been through several public defenders and has many continuances. He remains in jail and continously calls our mom claiming his innocence. He has made her think that it is her job to get him out of jail - call the attorney general, call the judge, he is innocent and his rights have been violated. She and I both feel very guilty and I am extremely angry with him for his treatment of her. I live several hundred miles away so I cannot see him in person but I would like to write him a letter getting everything off my chest. My mom is against this as she feels I am kicking him while he is down and I am not being supportive. He is the kind of "you're with me or against me" person so I realize this will be like divorcing my brother. He has no friends and no one has come looking for him or called him the entire time he has been in jail. I have started attending Al-Anon meetings - my mom won't go as she says it won't help him any - and have scheduled a meeting with a therapist. This has really torn our family up - my mother has called me more times than I can count sobbing as to what she can do. Do you think I should write this letter or just continue to try to help myself and heal?

Rob Danzman Says...:

Dear Anonymous,

That is what we refer to as a hot mess. Instead of talking about what your brother needs which is probably pretty obvious to you, I'll give you some strategies on what you can do. 

1. Set Boundaries: If you've read just about any other post from me, you will not be surprised that I'm going to encourage you identify and set boundaries not only with your brother, but also your mother who is acting as your brother's co-conspirator. Boundaries need to be specific (ie. "I will not send you more than $50/month to help") and clear (ie. "My decision is final. There is nothing to negotiate if you want more."). These types of boundaries are more for you than anyone else. You may want to set some boundaries with your mother as well. Tough but necessary. 

2. Protect Your Assets: People like your brother have a way of sliding down a slope and making increasingly unethical and illegal choices. Make sure that your family members (your kids, spouse, etc) know they are not to give, loan or sell anything to your brother. You may also want to consider not having him over to your home until he cleans up his act. 

3. Reinforce Positive Behavior: Sounds insulting but all of us live our lives based on positive reinforcement schedules (eg. "When I go to work for 40 hrs/wk, I get paid $3900."). Try and catch your brother when he is doing something right and making a sincere effort. When (ok, if) you see him making a healthy choice, point it out and give him some attention. He's in a dark place right now and has lost big chunks of his life because of his choices. Your mother, ironically, is reinforcing the undesirable behavior by bailing him out. That's the pain you hear in her voice when she calls - she knows what she's doing but can't help that maternal instinct to help her son.  

4. Offer Support: I said offer support, but don't expect it will be well received right now. Offering support is, again, for you more so than for your brother. I'd want it to sound something like this "Hey man, I know you are hurting right now and feel kicked by the world. If you want, I'll help by coming with you to see someone who can help start turning things around." Just the time it would take to go with him to therapy - nothing more at this point. Agencies like ours work with people like your brother and help them navigate the complications of the legal, substance abuse and mental health system since it's all tied together. Feel free to refer him (or your mother) to us for a free consult. We can at least point them in the right direction.

Finally, Al-Anon helps many people but I would recommend you meet with a therapist that specializes in substance abuse treatment who would be willing to see you for a consultation (one or two sessions instead of every week). A good therapist can provide insight, support and additional strategies if you want to go deeper into figuring out how to get through this mess your brother has created. 

Good luck with all this. It will take strength and you will question your decision but taking care of yourself and your immediate family is the highest priority.  

Question: My brother is an alcoholic. He lives with me. About a year ago I had had enough with his drinking and all the trouble that went along with it and I gave him an ultimatum. He either had to start getting some help and go to AA and try to quit drinking or he would have to leave. He agreed and now he goes to one or two meetings a day and he swears he is trying his hardest to really change his life and turn things around. He does not drink as openly anymore but I can often smell alcohol on him. When I have confronted him on this he admits to having setbacks sometimes but he says it’s just a part of the process of one day at a time. I studied psychology so I know something about addiction and I know that it is sort of a process for life and that relapses are common, so I understand this. But what I am worried about is that he is not even trying, really. I think he is now going to meetings just to get me off his back so he can live with me for free and continue to drink as much as he likes. Actually, it’s better for him now, since now that he is supposedly in recovery and trying his best, everyone treats him with kid gloves all of the time. I want to support him but I don’t want to enable him with a free place to live if he’s not even trying. How can I know if he is trying for real or not? Are there any more measurable standards I could use?

Rob Danzman Says...:

Dear Anonymous,

There certainly is a fine line between enabling and setting effective limits. This may sound strange but there is no way of really knowing whether is is trying for real or not. Example: There are plenty of people that really, really want to be professional athletes. They may train hard, eat right and stay focused but sometimes a combination of luck, DNA and environmental conditions do not allow the athlete to produce the results necessary for pro-status. He may be trying. He may not be trying. Let's re-focus your question: Where is your limit to what you are willing to tolerate in your home and in your life? Ultimately, whether the person is a friend, stranger or family member, we have to develop and maintain our own boundaries first. In one sense, you are correct. The more you give him a free place to crash, the less motivation he has to get on track. You also don't just want to kick him out one weekend. So try the middle path - "I'm so thankful you have let me help you over the past few months. I am willing to help for another 3 months and then we need you to transition to your own independent home so you can continue growing and also so we don't lose our relationship." And, as you may notice, I didn't give you much about alcohol intervention. I think your focus should be on what you have control over. If everyone in his life focused on setting and maintaining clear, healthy boundaries with him, he would be more inclined to get help on his own rather than couch surfing. 

1. Identify and maintain your boundaries
2. Be specific with boundaries (ie. timeframe, dollar amount)
3. Communicate your boundaries in a supportive manner as a solution
4. Focus on boundaries rather than the drinking

Question: My neighbor is a good hearted old guy but his wife died from cancer last year and he is sort of unraveling now. He is only in his 60s but he is drinking all day long now and when I talk to him after work he is often very drunk by then. I feel really bad for the guy but he is not interested in talking with me about his drinking. He has a daughter who I have met only twice in the past 12 years and as far as I know no other family. I would like to help him but I do not have a clue what to do. Is there anyone I can call at AA or a group like that who might be able to come out and have a talk with this guy? It seems to me that he is forgotten about by everyone. I know that it is not really my business but it seems wrong to not try to do something.

Rob Danzman Says...:

Dear Anonymous,

I would encourage you to create kind of a schedule or routine for when you go by to visit him. This seems silly but, we know from research and experience that even when someone is depressed they count on, and are often emotionally-supported by regular, predictable activities outside of their control. It sounds like he has some serious adjustment issues that would have been less severe if he had more natural supports in his life. You may also want to call your local Department of Social Services and ask for a social worker that works with seniors. They may be able to send someone over to him and start providing professional support in conjunction with your sincere and thoughtful visits. The drinking is more than likely a symptom and will not decrease until his emotional state stabilizes. When spending time with him, just be with him - don't try to convince him to do anything. It's a long, hard road when someone has lost a spouse. 

1. Visit on a regular, predictable schedule 
2. Contact Department of Social Services for Senior Support
3. Listen Loudly and give little advice